Guest Hanice Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 http://db.tt/gICOGZOOI wonder if those two dots could be obstructions that cause me to nearly feint when I stand up and whether that could be the reason I hear a fizzy swishy sound in the back of my neck all the time? Does anyone else have symptoms like that (and had this MRI)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katybug Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Hanice, I think I would definitely refer this question to a neurologist or neurosurgeon. I don't think anyone here is qualified to make a call on this. I feel your pain though. I always look at my pics from diagnostics and see anomalies that I want answers to asap. I am actually continually surprised by the number of abnormalities are in my brain and spine that are considered "normal for my age" or "normal for migraineur". It's definitely worth asking a doc specifically about that area, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanice Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Hi KatybugI asked a neurologist that I saw and he brushed it off. I don't think he even saw it or cared to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louloutinks Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Looks like you have a 3/4mm chiari to me with some overcrowding. I have chiari and get the swooshing sound - is yours in time with your heart beat? Overcrowding could be causing the swooshing as CSF is being forced past the cerebellum like a water hammer. The dots could be vessels or nerves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louloutinks Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Can you post a more centralised pic where you can clearly see the odontoid (c1vertebrae)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badhbt Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 I agree with Tinks.....check out this website with MRI images http://radiopaedia.org/articles/chiari-i-malformation. I know we cannot diagnose on this forum, but I have read that it can take a highly skilled Radiologist to pick up a small Chairi 1 malformation, which can cause symptoms. It might be worth getting a second opinion with someone who knows a lot about it. I believe Doctors are more concerned about the spinal canal then behind the vertebrates, I think that is just tissue, but a second opinion is always good, especially if you have concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanice Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Looks like you have a 3/4mm chiari to me with some overcrowding. I have chiari and get the swooshing sound - is yours in time with your heart beat? Overcrowding could be causing the swooshing as CSF is being forced past the cerebellum like a water hammer. The dots could be vessels or nerves.I never even heard of that! I hear mine randomly but lately it sounds like its getting more obstructed.. I hear it a lot when my stomach grumbles. So the dots look like nothing out of the ordinary? I read more on chiari now, and it is a cause for dysautonomia!!!! And ALSO more women then men are affected by it! I wonder how many of us might have been over looked in our brain scans!!!! Im gonna make an appointment with a different Neurologist and see what he/she thinks. I did compare mine mri with chiari MRIs and it does appear to be that. http://db.tt/1dCBeDR7 this is the whole disc. Im sorry I took so long uploading it! Ive been biting my nails hoping you would still look over this! :-) thank you endlessly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanice Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 I agree with Tinks.....check out this website with MRI images http://radiopaedia.org/articles/chiari-i-malformation. I know we cannot diagnose on this forum, but I have read that it can take a highly skilled Radiologist to pick up a small Chairi 1 malformation, which can cause symptoms. It might be worth getting a second opinion with someone who knows a lot about it. I believe Doctors are more concerned about the spinal canal then behind the vertebrates, I think that is just tissue, but a second opinion is always good, especially if you have concerns. Thank you for the link badht! I wilk definitely look into getting a new Neurologist asap. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louloutinks Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Plenty of pics there to upload Hanice! I'm not an expert but have chiari myself. If you look at the site that Badhbt gave you, you can see where the measurements are for a chiari. If you look at picture 8 - on your disc there should be a tools section that you can draw a line from the base of the clivus to the occipital bone at the back. You can then measure the drop of the cerebellum. To me it looks like there is not much room for flow in the cisterna magna (the space under chiari/cerebellum). Even if you have a chiari and pots, it doesn't necessarily mean its the cause of the pots. It can cause problems with fast heart rate too but depends if it is compressing the brain stem or not. My neuro said it was the cause of pots, yet my autonomic unit said my pots was not caused by chiari. I am seeing a neurosurgeon in August, so lets see what he thinks. I am in the UK. Are you in the US as Dr Henderson is highly recommended in the US for chiari. I would definitely see another doc for a second opinion though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanice Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Thank you so much Tinks!! Some questions:How big is yours btw? (Lol) Any medication they have given you?What are YOUR symptoms?And how did you find out you had a Chiari?And thank you so much! I love you forever! :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louloutinks Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 No problem!! Mine is variable on 4 different mri's. the last one was 5mm, but the second was nearly 20mm and another was 8.9mm (not sure of the other without looking). . Hence seeing a NS for some answers as to why there is such a variation. My symptoms are head/ear pressure. Vertigo, nausea, choking and swallowing problems, episodes of losing coordination and balance, overshooting to pick something up, facial twitching on the left, whooshing in back of head, crossed acoustic reflex problems, normal tinnitus, arm weakness/numbness/nerve pain. Right arm tremors. Orthostatic headaches. Head pain and pressure with coughing, singing, straining, bending over. Neck and shoulder pain. Leg weakness. Pins and needles/dyesthesia in arms legs and scalp. And if i look up, my head feels like a ten tn weight and it is painful to straighten it back up. These symptoms can wax and wane or can hit all at once if having a bad chiari week. A couple of years ago I visited the emergency dept as I kept dropping things and had horrendous head pain. I told them it felt like the back of my skull was getting caught on hooks - now I know why I got that feeling! I also have eds and pots, and all the symptms that go along with those aswell so not much fun and chiari is more common with eds. I went for various mris due to my problems and was finally seen by an ENT. He ordered an MRI to check for acoustic neuroma but he found the chiari. It was missed on all the other scans. Hope that's helped. Do you get anything like this?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanice Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Wow! Btw! That MRI was from over a year ago and my symptoms have gotten way worst.I get an incredible head pressure when I lay on my belly with my elbows holding me up (like if I was on my phone typing on the bed laying on my belly) so much that if I stay in that position for too long I start seeing spots!I am dealing withan incredible jaw and ear pressure lately that is of a big concern! I cant believe you have ear pressure too! I feel like my ears are going to EXPLODE all the time. It gets me so anxious too!I do have major pressure in my face and head when bending over also. Ive had this since the pots.Do you have visual snow or floaters? I do. I've also had facial twitching, specifically both my bottom eye lids alternate.Over a year ago I went to the ER because I was falling to the side, they did a ct scan of my brai and it was all "ok".I think I might have eds but Im not sure. I do have "double joints" but Im not cracking anything else but my chest bone and back everyday. I havent gotten a dx for that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louloutinks Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 I get the head pressure when laying on my stomach too. It's unbearable! Last year I was getting grey spots in vision as well as floaters but have had them for years and years. Jaw and ear pain along with ear and head pressure but I don't get that too often. If I remember rightly, it can affect the facial nerves, and case pain, numbness and twitching.You might want to see a specialist. I drew a line on your pic number 8 and there's not so much a drop but more overcrowding I would say. Chiari size does not matter as someone with a 15mm can have no symptoms at all but someone with a chiari 0 can be very symptomatic due to crowding. Let us know how you get on, if you manage to see someone about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanice Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 I wish I knew what you mean by overcrowding! :-( How can you see overcrowding? What does that look like and what is it exactly? And also, I couldn't find the measuring tool ! Lol Im such a mess :-] thank you for measuring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanice Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 And by the way do you have sinusitis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badhbt Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 One more thing, I read that a standing MRI is good for diagnosing Chairi, because the brain stem can move down while standing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louloutinks Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Yes am suffering very bad with sinus at the moment Hanice . My eyes are so swollen, headache and constant salty runny nose. Really is not nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmedLinz Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 The best way to diagnose symptoms being caused by a minor chiari is with a CINE MRI, it looks at spinal fluid flow.Mine was diminished, so even though my chiari is borderline the doc I saw ranked me a 9 out of 10 for symptoms.What area of the country are you in???Normal neurologists usually over look it or don't believe borderlines cause problems.I will post pictures of mine a bit later today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanice Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 The best way to diagnose symptoms being caused by a minor chiari is with a CINE MRI, it looks at spinal fluid flow.Mine was diminished, so even though my chiari is borderline the doc I saw ranked me a 9 out of 10 for symptoms.What area of the country are you in???Normal neurologists usually over look it or don't believe borderlines cause problems.I will post pictures of mine a bit later today.I would REALLY love it if you could! And thank you for the name of the MRI! I will definitely look into it! I don't know what I would do without you guys!Im in Miami Flo and BTW what are YOUR symptoms?! are they anything like ours or worst? rated 9 out of 10 sounds pretty darn bad! And did YOU have sinusitis come up in your MRI? Thank you so much for the reply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanice Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 One more thing, I read that a standing MRI is good for diagnosing Chairi, because the brain stem can move down while standing.Standing up for close to an hour doesn't sound like too much fun to me.. OMG I can barely stand for a min! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxie Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 You can get sitting MRI's which should be just as good. I'm in the proccess of doing the right now. I have my cervical spine with flex/ext tomorrow. There's some facebook groups that focus on these problems "beyond the measurement" and "eds neck surgery". Look up Dr Fraser Henderson in Bethesda Md (he's the top expert) and also Dr Jon Oro in Denver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxie Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Google "upright mri" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanice Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Google "upright mri"OMG! I love your name! I really do hate bananas! And I didn't even know they HAD sitting MRIs wow.. Thank you for all the info too!! What are you doing a sitting MRI for BTW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkd Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Back to the two dots on your first MRI image--I just looked at mine and I can see those also. I'm no expert by any means, but I think they are blood vessels. When I look at the image before and after on mine, I can see a blood vessel, so I think it's just where the vessel has turned.. Also, that's not far under the skin.I just looked up Chiari and I have alot of those symptoms too, but I remember my neurologist looking at my images and saying to himself "no Chiari", so I know it's something he specifically looked for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanice Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Back to the two dots on your first MRI image--I just looked at mine and I can see those also. I'm no expert by any means, but I think they are blood vessels. When I look at the image before and after on mine, I can see a blood vessel, so I think it's just where the vessel has turned.. Also, that's not far under the skin.I just looked up Chiari and I have alot of those symptoms too, but I remember my neurologist looking at my images and saying to himself "no Chiari", so I know it's something he specifically looked for.Could it the be overcrowding? I'm still not site what this means but.. Hey why don't you post your pics too? Maybe someone can tell if it looks overcrowded? You can post it here if you're like! :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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