Oriental Medicine

[firewatcher]

Since I seem to have exhausted my resources in Western Medicine with stagnant results, and I am unwilling to live at this level of function for the rest of my life, I am trying a different approach: Oriental Medicine.

Today I saw a Doctor of Oriental Medicine and Acupuncture. After answering some really strange questions and having an exam, he said I was actually in pretty good health for a train wreck! He understood the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system and many of my diagnoses. He said flat out that he could not "fix" me, but he could help by relieving my pain. He also did not do acupuncture on me, saying that the mere insertion of the needles would cause my ANS to go into overdrive and that my nervous system did not need stimulation. I just am not comfortable "upping the dose" of narcotics (Klonopin) that I am on to achieve the same results as before. I managed for years before without meds and would like to get back to that version of me. He isn't changing any of my meds, or even asking me to do so. He has his own pharmacy and is willing to talk to both my primary care doc and Dad (pharmacist) before he would want me to try anything herbal.

Instead of acupuncture, he used acupressure and I can feel a difference (could be placebo effect.) I intend to give this a go and see how or if it works for me. I'll keep you all posted if you'll give me any experiences you've had with Oriental medicine.

Thanks!

[lieze]

That's great-keep us posted of your progress.

[jem15]

I know how you feel. Frustrated with Western Medicine, I looked to "alternative" or "complementary" forms of medicine. Everything from naturopaths who had me take different herbs,supplements, and homeopathic remedies, to MDs specializing in nutrition/holistic medicine, to energy therapists who did things like acupressure, Reike, etc.. to internists who did "integrative medicine" .. all kinds of elimination diets, no processed foods, no gluten, dairy, sugar, wheat, etc.... you get the idea;-)

Anyway, I really thought it'd be my answer, some of it made sense to me. And I saw some who were more "quacky" than others. Over the years, I've tried to only go with more "reputable" ones.. and really search for more "legitimate" practioners but it's hard. Some I feel are legit, but still have never been able to help me. Unfortunately, it's just been a lot of money and no difference, or sometimes I've even felt worse.

Ha, so I'm about equally frustrated with both Western and Eastern medicine at this point, but I don't necessarily think it means to stop trying. I'm pushing more with Western stuff now in light of the recent POTS diagnosis and visual vestibular dysfunction. But I still have some alternative stuff to try too, and actually today was just given the name of some local yogi type guy that does acupressure and various healing type stuff, from some social worker at a hospital. She swares by him and said her patients have found relief too. I'm so distrusting and skeptical at this point, but I guess that's the same for "regular doctors" too.

Ha, anyway, I've known some people to really do well with non-traditional medicine, I think it just depends on the person and the practioner. If it's working for you, then go for it. But if you feel something is not right in your gut, trust it. I do like that he said he cant cure you right off the bat. Ha, not that I dont want him to cure you, but my experience is when I go to these people and they insist from day #1 that they know what to do, and i will be cured, I NEVER am. So over the years, I kind of sense those people to be more of a scam. It's hard to know who to trust, but now I learned enough to go with my instinct. Especially when they do stuff that hurts or feels harmful. They'll make up excuses for it, and I can tell now it's just shady. But when you're young and so desperate to feel better, you want to believe them. Ha, now I'm a little older and more bitter;-) so a little smarter;-) Did you ever see Man in the Moon with Jim Carrey? When he goes to some place for this wierd cure of cancer I think it is, and he really believes it, until he sees the guy do something fake and he's kinda devastated but then he just starts laughing at himself, that he got so desperate to believe it. Ha, I feel like that when i try some of this stuff.

Anyway, good luck with it. I hope it brings you some relief. And if I ever try out that new local guy and find anything he's dong helpful, i'll let you know.

[pat57]

I have alot of respect for Traditional Chinese Medicine and acupunture. I have a serious problem

with TCM tho. And that is the herbal preparation is unpalatable.

Saw Dr,

.

got perscrpition for herbs

got the herbs

prepared, which took hours

could not get it down.

[pat57]

I have alot of respect for Traditional Chinese Medicine and acupunture. I have a serious problem

with TCM tho. And that is the herbal preparation is unpalatable.

Saw Dr,

.

got perscrpition for herbs

got the herbs

prepared, which took hours

could not get it down.

[MamaTrain]

I wonder if the acupressure would be better for me since the acupuncture was horrible! I couldn't understand it...everyone I knew that had it done just raved about how great they felt. I felt sooooooooooo terrible for hours after wards and now I wonder if the needles were just too much for me. Thanks for sharing that!

KC

[Birdlady]

Yes please let us know how this works out for you!!! I would have to agree with the needles. My body would immediately freak out at that...

I'm sick and tired of dealing with western medicine and incompetent, clueless doctors. I went to the local urgent care tonight because I've been having non-stop PVC's for about week now and the doctor told me that my POTS is from not having a job and not being "part of a team". /sigh I am soo sick of being treated like I'm insane or something.

[Crow]

Yes please let us know how this works out for you!!! I would have to agree with the needles. My body would immediately freak out at that...

I'm sick and tired of dealing with western medicine and incompetent, clueless doctors. I went to the local urgent care tonight because I've been having non-stop PVC's for about week now and the doctor told me that my POTS is from not having a job and not being "part of a team". /sigh I am soo sick of being treated like I'm insane or something.

What!?

Well now I've officially heard everything.

So sorry.

[janiedelite]

I've gone to acupuncture for four different reasons:

- neck pain... worked great, did a couple months of sessions

- hip pain... no relief. Didn't know at that time that I had a ruptured ligament.

- small fiber neuropathy pain and POTS... I'd always get a couple hours of relief and mild euphoria but then back to baseline. I tried this 4-5 times with the same result.

- lower back pain... no relief. Again, tried it for a couple months. I'm in so much pain.

The acupuncturist I went to recommended TCM dietary changes as well for POTS. If anything, I got worse during that period. Best wishes, though!

[Chaos]

Sounds like you may have found a "good" practitioner. It's certainly worth trying I think. I have done some accupuncture before and it sent me over the edge. I left the office feeling like I was going to jump out of my skin. That messed me up for quite awhile. Since then I've talked to a lot of other people who've done it and rave about how much it's helped them, but I don't think any of them have the ANS stuff.

I've seen an herbalist for several years. He actually did help some but even he said my body was weird because it was always jumping around with what it needed for support. And when the woo-woo people say your body is weird.... Yeesh! His stuff certainly hasn't cured anything though.

I'll be curious to hear how the accupressure goes. It's certainly had good results with many people. Please keep us posted.

[firewatcher]

This doc is not your "typical" CM doc, he didn't grow up with it as a cultural belief and he is not Asian, he's American (so there was no communication gap.) He was eager to compare Eastern and Western diagnoses and was really excited about epigenetics (so he's not reading the typical literature!) Again he was very emphatic that he could NOT cure me, only help me. He was also very adamant that he would probably not ever use needles on me, that any puncture of the skin would cause the "fight or flight" response to be stimulated.

I've just gotten really frustrated by all but two of my docs saying: "that's the way it is, just live with it." (cardiologist) or "You aren't as bad as some people I've seen." (endocrinologist) or "Something isn't wrong, it just isn't right....but it must be normal for you!" (nephrologist)

Honestly, I did not think he would consent to treat me at all. I was surprised at the amount of time he took taking a history and then the things he told me to avoid (which he actually explained!) I'm not hoping for a cure, and I don't think that I'll be able to go off my meds, but if he can help with the pain/headache or the fatigue.....or even the constipation, I'll be pleased.

I actually felt pretty good for the rest of the day yesterday, with the exception of feeling like I've been punched in the left kidney. I still have that pain this morning, but I don't have the headache and my HR is lower than it normally is for this time of day (95bpm instead of 115.) I'll keep you all posted.

[lieze]

Can I ask what he suggested you avoid?

I'm really thinking massage-at least hopefully it would feel good for a while.

[firewatcher]

Can I ask what he suggested you avoid?

I'm really thinking massage-at least hopefully it would feel good for a while.

I've got to preface this with the note that this was specific to me and my conditions.

He asked me to avoid cold, sweet and raw: no consumption of anything cooler than room temperature (I've had to do that for almost 3 years now,) no sweet foods (major cravings here) or drinks and no raw vegetables or fruits.

He also asked me to drink hot ginger tea and eat as many pickled foods as I could tolerate.

He specifically asked about my GFR (the Western indicator of kidney function) and if I was on any diet for that (I am--restricted protein.) He further asked me to restrict it to only 4 ounces of "mammal meat" a week and to get my daily protein requirements from other sources: nuts, tofu, legumes, chicken, etc.

According to this doc, in Chinese Medicine, the heart and kidneys are counter-balances, if one is overly active, the other will be under-active. This is also true in Western medicine as seen by the renin-aldosterone, adrenal and vasopressin affects on cardiac function. My guess is that the pickles are to increase sodium and water retention.

He also gave me two reasons not to take herbal medicines at this time: they would interact with what I'm already on and they would be too strong. He is trying to use food as medicine first and get my digestive tract back on line instead of all backed up.

I'll give it a go, but the pickled plums are NASTY...I think I'll stick with dills and olives.

Oh, he actually called this afternoon and asked if I had any side effects from my first treatment!

Edited August 3, 2010 by firewatcher

[lieze]

Thanks for sharing that.

[Noreen]

Sounds like a good doc to me - he is concerned, caring, doesn't want to do anything to make things worse, and he listens (and it sounds like he listens respectfully).

I tried acupuncture for migraines and had horrible reaction.

You can always give Giardinera, Italian mixed pickled vegetables, a try for variety.

Hope you get some relief,

noreen

[ramakentesh]

I have BY FAR the best results from chinese herbal medicine. But im unwilling as yet to name the herbs for fear of jinxing my results. stay tuned...

[firewatcher]

I am getting surprisingly good results from this doctor (technically he is not a MD.) I have managed to taper off my Klonopin by 1/3 already without the rebound headache. He would like to use traditional Chinese medicines on me, but we are both very cautious because of the possible drug interactions. This is why I'm attempting to get off the Klonopin. Many of the herbs that he has mentioned have been mentioned in other posts on the forum with success. The food adjustments are easier now and are becoming effective, my GI system is finally moving again! I'll keep everyone posted with my progress.

I had an awful weekend: I had PT for my shoulder (rotator cuff) and had a new therapist. This PT decided that I needed more range of motion stretching so he pushed me well beyond comfort into pain and caused a major ANS flare. I was sure that I'd be black and blue since the seat belt across my shoulder hurt. I was shocked when my new doc manipulated my arm and shoulder and placed a single needle at my wrist (I think he inserted that one) and the pain in my shoulder was gone! If that was a placebo effect I'll take it! It is still pain free today.

The biggest thing I like about this doc is that he treats me like a person, not a condition. I'm not a quirky illness to him, but a mind and a body with feelings. It has been so rare to find doctors who really, honestly want to heal and not just "treat the symptoms."

[ramakentesh]

LOL. POTS seems so much easier to explain in terms of the TCM concepts of the body and its energy. The herbs I was referring to have not been mentioned on this website but ill mention them by the end of the year.

As an example - Panax Ginseng is an amazing herb - sure it is an adrenalin stimulant but at the time that it increases metabolism in a similar way to caffeine it also stimulates alpha 2 receptors like clonidine and also increases overall serotonin levels which in my experience always has beneficial effects. The next day i tend to crash so its a rely on at the time herb.

Another interesting herb is Kanna or Sceletium tortuosum. It is a potent serotonin reuptake inhibator and has proven effects in rebalancing the autonomic nervous system. In my experience its way ahead of any medication ive ever tried for POTS.

Valarian acts in an interesting way with POTS - it seems to act on NMDA receptors rather than true GABA receptors - improving symptoms without a detrimental effect on the autonomic balance or vasoconstriction.

I have a few others that currently Im still assessing but thus far they have proven highly reliable. Stay tuned!!

[firewatcher]

LOL. POTS seems so much easier to explain in terms of the TCM concepts of the body and its energy. The herbs I was referring to have not been mentioned on this website but ill mention them by the end of the year.

As an example - Panax Ginseng is an amazing herb - sure it is an adrenalin stimulant but at the time that it increases metabolism in a similar way to caffeine it also stimulates alpha 2 receptors like clonidine and also increases overall serotonin levels which in my experience always has beneficial effects. The next day i tend to crash so its a rely on at the time herb.

Another interesting herb is Kanna or Sceletium tortuosum. It is a potent serotonin reuptake inhibator and has proven effects in rebalancing the autonomic nervous system. In my experience its way ahead of any medication ive ever tried for POTS.

Valarian acts in an interesting way with POTS - it seems to act on NMDA receptors rather than true GABA receptors - improving symptoms without a detrimental effect on the autonomic balance or vasoconstriction.

I have a few others that currently Im still assessing but thus far they have proven highly reliable. Stay tuned!!

No kidding! I was shocked by the level of understanding and the list of "unlisted symptoms" that I had but didn't mention that this guy rattled off after the initial exam! He explained it in a way that made absolute sense (even by Western medical standards,) taking the entire body and mind and mood into account. Sometimes I wonder if "Western Medicine" isn't letting the "children lead the elders."

[ramakentesh]

So was I and my response to the treatment options provided. for me these tend to work less and less with regular use, so i tend to rely on them for the periods when i need to be at my best only.

[firewatcher]

So was I and my response to the treatment options provided. for me these tend to work less and less with regular use, so i tend to rely on them for the periods when i need to be at my best only.

I brought this "tolerance issue" up with this guy and he explained it rather simply: the medicine works to balance an imbalance (that is when it works)......once a balance has been achieved, more of the same medicine brings about another, different imbalance. He said "the body is a constantly changing balance, therefore the medicine needs to change along with it." If something works for a while, then it is working, once it stops working it begins to create a problem that needs something else to "fix" it.

He also mentioned that he could not "cure" me, but that he could help. He mentioned epigenetics and I immediately wished I could get the two of you together.